EP6: How can a Brand Grow a Loyal Audience? – TOP 3 BRAND ADVICE W/ DR.KIONA

EP 6: How can a Brand Grow a Loyal Audience?– TOP 3 BRAND ADVICE W/ DR.KIONA

From an Academic, Author, and Travel Brand Owner’s perspective

1. 1. Listen in on Dr.Kiona’s TOP 3 pieces of advice on Branding and Business.  Dr. Kiona, Ph.D., M.S., M.A. is an academic, author and the founder of How Not To Travel Like A Basic Bitch, which was launched in 2016 as a platform to deliver education through travel in a digestible and accessible way. Dr. Kiona also hosts a spin-off research-based podcast called How Not To Travel (which has hit #1 in 13 different countries) and off-line educational lessons in Cuba.
   2. TOPICS WE DISCUSS: Growing a Loyal Audience, Benefits of Organic Growth, Moving Fast Disadvantages, How to Remain a Brand’s Authenticity in an Ever-changing World, Pandemic Adjustment Lessons, Community Management during a Pandemic, What it’s like to Build an Empire, Modern Day Insight to a Brand’s Growth, Ways to Grow and Scale.

TRANSCRIPTION:

 

First tip: 0:03:46.1

Second tip: 0:08:00.2

Third tip: 0:12:21.1

 

[0:00:00.4] Dr. Kiona: So you have to grow with your growth, so what I was doing at 500 followers isn’t what I was doing at 10,000 followers, isn’t what I’m doing at 100,000, isn’t what I’m going to be doing at 1 million followers.

 

[0:00:16.1] Peggy: You’re listening to the Branding Gems podcast, a podcast that’s not just interviews and conversations. It’s to bring you guys the best of the best women in branding and business to answer this question: What are your top three valuable tips and lessons that you learned along the way? And then, we discuss it. To fuel your passion-filled lifestyle business, I promise to bring you the best of the best women in branding and business and together, we can grow and learn from the extracted advice that they provide. I’m Peggy Bree, and let’s get growing!

 

Hey, guys! Before we get started, I just wanted to mention an awesome podcast to add to your library. This podcast is hosted by Debbie, who is someone I admire in this online space, and I know you’ll get so much insight and tips from her podcast, as well as from her because she’s amazing. And her podcast is called The Offbeat Life, where you can get tips on how to make online work more sustainable, and Debbie interviews travellers who left their 9 to 5 to become remote entrepreneurs. You can check out the podcast at theoffbeatlife.com and tune into her weekly episodes. And yeah, check her out. She’s awesome! And the guest today is awesome. I can’t wait to share her and her top three tips on branding and business, so without further ado, stay tuned for this week’s guest.

 

Hey, guys! Thanks for tuning back to Branding Gems. I’m really, really excited to introduce the next guest today and to share her top three best advice to help you guys. Today, we have Dr. Kiona, and Dr. Kiona is an academic author and the founder of How Not To Travel Like A Basic Bitch, which was launched in 2016 as a platform to deliver education through travel in a digestible and accessible way. Dr. Kiona also hosts a spin-off research-based podcast called How Not To Travel, which has hit #1 in 13 different countries, and offline educational lessons in Cuba. Welcome to this podcast, Kiona!

 

[0:02:42.7] Dr. Kiona: Thank you so much for having me, Peggy!

 

[0:02:44.6] Peggy: Yeah, this is so cool. We’ve been talking online for so long and then now, we’re actually conversing, so I’m really excited!

 

[0:02:52.0] Dr. Kiona: I know. Next step, we have to meet in person.

 

[0:02:55.7] Peggy: I know! That would definitely happen. That will be very interesting. [Laughter] So Kiona is also one the author-contributors for our book, Branding Quickies, which is written by 20 amazing women from around the world who share their stories, tips, advice to help out entrepreneurs looking for some refresher and insight in their business journey at whatever stage they’re in. And Kiona’s section, wow! It was just so good and very true to the point. She really breaks down the progress of how one can build their brand in a really real way. So, let’s dive right into the meat and potatoes. What are your top three valuable tips and advice that you have on branding and business? And let’s start with the first one.

 

[0:03:46.1] Dr. Kiona: Well, my first one is stay authentic, and I think that you can tell that immediately by my Instagram name. My brand name is How Not To Travel Like A Basic Bitch, and it actually started off as a joke, but the thing that it embodies is one, my age, right? The term “basic bitch” is very millennial, it’s targeting also an audience that is similar to me, using colloquial language such as this. Also, the directness of it is also very me, straight to the point to my personality. And also, that means it’s going to attract people who are not going to be offended by this name, people who think it’s funny, people who know what this word means. All of these things, I actually found that branding it that way and sticking with that brand instead of rebranding has had immense advantages for me because it does attract the audience that I want. But I would say for other people, I think that’s not authentic to you, right? That is just something that’s authentic to me. It’s like branding myself in a way that is authentic to my personality, the language I use, how I’m going to be delivering information, and the satire and sarcasm that comes along with my brand. I would suggest for other people to be authentic to themselves. I find so many times, people try to fit what they think that their client wants, and for me, I think it’s the opposite. If you’re going to have a business, you need to decide who you are and what is the message that you are trying to give or the products, the gap that you’re trying to fill with your product, and then your client will fit you. You don’t have to fit clients.

 

[0:05:38.9] Peggy: Mm-hmm. No, it’s so true. You have to really be bold with your statement and what you stand for, and that will only be to your own benefit because it will really attract the people who are about that and align with it and are so involved with what you do and your statement with this. I love that. How would you say, in terms of being consistent with being authentic, because sometimes I’m sure it would be hard for one to stay authentic if they’re always so swayed with how other people think of them and how their brand should be. So how does one just remain authentic in their brand?

 

[0:06:17.9] Dr. Kiona: I think it’s a constant reflection. I mean, we are not stagnant human beings by any means, so what I was publishing five years ago and the products I was selling five years ago is not the same that I’m doing today. It’s a constant change, re-evaluation, what’s authentic to me, and pivoting as I go. But I think that people can easily get caught up in what’s popular or what takes or stuff like that, which I also have gotten caught up in. But what I’ve realized is that when you start feeding the masses what they want, you start to move away from what you want, and not all growth is good growth. So that’s what I’ve learned along the way. It’s staying authentic, constantly evaluating and staying true to self regardless of clients because the client base will swarm to you, not the other way around. But this goes into my second point in branding and that not all growth is good growth, and a lot of times, slow growth is loyal growth.

 

[0:07:23.0] Peggy: Mm-hmm. That’s so true. Building that loyal community and customer for the brand takes time, and the desire on growing it fast in this fast-paced world doesn’t really make sense because it just comes and goes. But in having that community that stays with you and are loyal to building that brand’s message or loyal to uplifting that brand’s message with you is pretty awesome, so I love that. I love slow growth.

 

[0:08:00.2] Dr. Kiona: Yes, I think that, like you said, people really are like, “Oh, this brand or this product is amazing. Why don’t more people know about it? I want to get in front of all these people’s eyes.” All of that is valid because if you can’t sell something, if you can’t make money off of it, then your brand does only as good as it’s selling. But with that said, I have found that slow growth has been so loyal. I’ve gotten way more return customers, which ends up being more money or more profitable rather than just trying to sell anything. Even with brand partnerships, I partner with one or two brands, but both of those brands return back and we do partnerships every couple months. Whereas if I was just doing any brand partnership, let’s say I’m branding with McDonald’s and Google, but at the same time, preaching nutritious foods or something like that, for example, it just doesn’t make sense. So instead, staying authentic and growing slowly and only taking partnerships or taking clients or taking products that you actually build community with and are in the same things that you stand for, it might be slower but it’s loyal and in the long run, I personally feel like you make more money that way. And I want to say you make more good money because not all money is good money also. So for me, the slow growth where you’re able to build community, build relationships, get to know your clients, get to know your product, get to know your people, have a constant free-flowing feedback mechanism of improvement and what you can do to help your client and all those things results in a loyal, loyal following so that when things go down, they’re still there. Rather than people who grow so fast, they one, haven’t had time to adjust their supply chains or who they’re hiring or their ethics and morals in business, and it’s not a loyal following. It might be there for a moment, but it’s not a long-term game.

 

[0:10:13.5] Peggy: Mm-hmm, exactly.

 

[0:10:14.2] Dr. Kiona: So yeah, I will take slow, loyal growth over fast, frivolous growth any day.

 

[0:10:23.6] Peggy: Mm-hmm. I love that. So how would you say, in terms of the growth or the people, how do you maintain that relationship to be strong?

 

[0:10:33.9] Dr. Kiona: For me, I do a lot of dialogue, so whenever a client writes me or whenever I get a DM or a comment, I always respond. And I might get a thousand in a day, two thousand in a day, that to me is a work day, so I will spend the entire time just responding, whether or not this is a client or not. They could be a future client. They could be contributing later in the future, so everything is an investment, and it’s an investment dialogue and community, and generally getting to know that person and validating them, or just repeating back, empathizing with them, and things like that. And then when a client does end up buying a product, always being appreciative. I send so many thank-you notes. I send so many emails. I send so many things that are not online. I do them all offline, and just to reiterate that they are part of my community. This wasn’t just a one-time buy situation. This is a continual relationship, that we’re participating in a mutual exchange of energy.

 

[0:11:40.1] Peggy: Mm-hmm. I love that, and that really ties into your first point of being authentic in your connections and that, in itself, will really help you meet the right people and the good people that are for you and for your brand. And that’s so important to really be authentic in that way, in the growth and in your community and your people and the whole entire empire that you’re building.

 

[0:12:07.5] Dr. Kiona: Yes, exactly.

 

[0:12:09.1] Peggy: Yes. So besides staying authentic and the importance of sticking to a good growth, what is your most valuable and final tip?

 

[0:12:21.1] Dr. Kiona: I don’t know if it’s the most valuable, but this is something I’ve recently learned. So you have to grow with your growth, so what I was doing at 500 followers isn’t what I was doing at 10,000 followers, isn’t what I’m doing at 100,000, isn’t what I’m going to be doing at 1 million followers. What I was doing with one product isn’t what I’m doing with two products, is not what I’m doing with other products, or same with brand partnerships. So I think so often, we find success in specific ways and that works for the moment, but if you’re trying to scale, those things may not work and you might have to say goodbye to those things and completely revamp how you’re thinking. And I think that it’s been an issue for me, just stepping into the unknown. For example, just this year, I hired an assistant, something that I never imagined me doing because I’m like, “Oh, I can do it all!” But really, I can’t scale if I don’t have help. And so, I’ve been able to do so much more with just one person being able to help me out. And so, I have to tell myself like, “If you want to be able to keep up with what you’re doing, you’re going to have to change your system, in the way that you think and the way that you operate.” And that’s just constant, and so for me, it’s been a learning lesson of what I was doing before isn’t what I’m doing now. I have to change my systems in order to grow and to manage my growth. Another thing is I used to show my family a lot or get people very involved and my lovelife and all those things. All those things I don’t do anymore when there are so many eyes on you that I just have adjusted for my own personal safety and mental health. So what worked for me when I had a smaller community is definitely not what works for me with a larger community. So just like adjusting as you go along and being able to let go of certain ideas and embracing new ones because you cannot grow without changing constantly.

 

[0:14:34.5] Peggy: Mm-hmm. That makes so much sense. What are the sort of things that need to be adjusted during moments of growth?

 

[0:14:43.9] Dr. Kiona: For me, in my sample size of one, it’s just understanding that I can’t do it all. I can’t do it all and it’s impossible and that leads to burnout. And in order for me to expand and grow and make more money and reach more people and start more projects, I need help and I have to be willing to accept that help and also invest in it, as in like pay somebody to do it. I had lots of interns along the way who just wanted to learn things along the way in exchange for free, I guess, labor, which might be helpful at some point. It was helpful at some point in my business model, but now, I need someone to be on all the time and care about my business as much as I care about my business. And in order to do that, you need to pay people. So for me, I was like, “I need help and I need to pay my help.” I mean, that’s just for me. It’s going to look different for every other person. And then when I grow again, I’m going to have to come to that decision again like, “Okay, maybe I need to hire a full-time accountant. Maybe I need to hire a manager.” Who knows? Or maybe I’m going to have to pivot from Instagram and start selling on TikTok and YouTube. All of those things are all questions that run through my head as I try to adapt and change and as I grow, just recognizing things that I need to let go, even if it’s my favorite platform and moving to a different one, to hiring a new person. All of those things are all changes that I’m making so that I’m not doing what I’ve always done if I’m trying to get somewhere bigger.

 

[0:16:30.8] Peggy: Mm-hmm. That makes sense. If you’re only doing the same thing over and over again, there needs some sort of change so that there could be growth and some sort of adjustment so that that growth can happen. So that’s so interesting. You can only plan so much ahead, but sometimes those adjustments come along the way too. And actually, in that case of hiring an assistant and hiring other people so you could focus on other areas to grow, do you have any tips on finding an assistant? How has that contributed to the growth so far? Were there any challenges? How is it even like?

 

[0:17:24.6] Dr. Kiona: Yeah. For me, I had two virtual assistants that were helping out in the beginning. And they were great, but they were only able to do one section, so it’s like, “Okay, they’re just working on my Pinterest” or “They’re just working on media kits and reaching out to brands.” But it wasn’t a holistic understanding of my brand. What I needed was somebody who was going to be able to think ahead and not always have to tell them what to do. They inherently know what to do. They have a good grasp of my brands, all the graphics that they’re creating and all the wording and all that stuff is already pretty much done, I only have to do minor edits. And basically just someone who I don’t have to micromanage. I can send instructions and they know what to do and I don’t have to continue training them or walking them through it. And I actually found that in somebody that I had known for a very long time, and I had always thought that he was like, “Oh, he’s intelligent on his own,” and then when COVID-19 hit and the pandemic and everybody lost their jobs, it was just the perfect time to bring him on. And being able to have an assistant just gives me so much free time to do things that only I can do. So anybody can make a graphic, anybody can answer emails and schedule a calendar appointment, all of those things, set up a conference, set up my Zoom conferencing, my webinars, all of those things, it’s something that I can outsource. I don’t need to be the person to do it. But the things that I do need to do is reach out and make contacts within my community, consistently have relationships with people, come up with business plans and discuss with other business owners how we can collaborate to make a profitable business model and then institute those projects, all those require me only. I cannot send an assistant to do that. So I’ve been able to have more time to travel, create projects, create systems, create new business lines because I’m not at home answering emails and scheduling meetings and making graphics for Instagram. All of that stuff is already done, and I just am able to one, take more naps [laughter], and two, be able to travel and make more connections and have more business growth this way.

 

[0:19:56.7] Peggy: Awesome! It’s so good to really lift that off of someone and have someone really do that for you and having time to rest and not feel so guilty of giving it to somebody and giving yourself time to do that, so that’s so important.

 

[0:20:14.0] Dr. Kiona: It is!

 

[0:20:15.7] Peggy: And yeah, with this whole COVID and pandemic, how have you been? How have you been adjusting? And what are the major lessons that you’ve learned from all of this?

 

[0:20:29.6] Dr. Kiona: It’s been hard. I think it’s been hard for everybody, so I don’t want to say like it’s a just-to-me exclusive thing. I think COVID has been hard on everyone except for Jeff Bezos. But it’s been hard because the business models that I’ve created are so community-based so that when one community is down, we all are down. And so many things have dropped. It’s been a struggle to support everybody in the ways they need to be supported, while also losing so many streams of income, so many business models. Especially being in travel, being cut off during COVID-19, having to pivot, having to manage my own stress and emotional anxiety while trying to pay people and make sure that the business models that are getting cut off right now don’t just die completely and that we’re going to be able to revive them. So all of those things have been happening to me over the pandemic. And especially I think for business owners, when you spend so much time building a business, it’s like a literal part of your identity and a part of yourself, so when it goes, your identity also kind of goes. And so, it’s been a lot of giving myself permission to be sad [laughter] and to just spend days in bed sometimes, just overwhelmed, and also giving myself permission to self-care. So going on vacations or meeting with friends or just going fishing, something that I would never do and just giving myself time to rest because I’m like, “Okay, when you can’t work anymore because I’ve tried all these avenues, maybe it’s just time to rest.” And when you’re an entrepreneur, your business only goes as much hard work as you’re putting into it in the beginning, so it’s been tough to give myself permission to just do nothing. But it’s been [laughter] something that I’ve been having to do just because I was going in circles, like a hamster on a wheel, just trying to figure out how we’re going to work this out. And at one point, I was just like, “I’m just going to stop. I’m going to get off the wheel.”

 

[0:22:55.2] Peggy: Mm-hmm. It’s so true. Yeah, I know. It’s like when the world is a mess, sometimes it’s so easy to just fall into that and then wanting to just fix it right away and to rebuild it right away, but it really does take time to rebuild something. And it’s a good thing to have that time to really rethink about what you want to do from now until then, and to really rebuild that foundation and to have moments of reflection on that, so it’s awfully important to do that too, and it’s such a great time to do that as well. So yeah, and it’s totally okay to rest and it makes sense for people to rest, of course.

 

[0:23:41.9] Dr. Kiona: Yeah. It’s hard though. [Laughter] For me, resting is really difficult.

 

[0:23:46.4] Peggy: Mm-hmm. Is it because you’re always thinking of what the next thing to do is and your mind is just always thinking about that?

 

[0:23:53.3] Dr. Kiona: Yes. It’s always like, “Okay, what are new ways? What can we do?” I’m always project-oriented, trying to build bridges between communities and being active on social media and creating content and all these things. And I love working, like I really love working. I love travelling. I love creating. I love connecting. I love all of those things. I love making money, but during COVID, it’s like all those things just aren’t at the same pace that I’m used to and would like to participate in.

 

[0:24:28.5] Peggy: Yeah, I think it definitely is a hard moment, but it’s so good in itself as well. Now, you can finally rest and not only that, but you can be really present and happy with where you are now instead of thinking about all the next things or what’s next, what’s next, this really is such a good moment to think about what you have now and what’s so good about now, and to really be so happy with what you have now, what you’ve built already today and just to really reflect on it. It’s such a good time for that.

 

[0:25:05.3] Dr. Kiona: Yeah, I agree. It’s been a lot of reflection and also thinking about what is a sustainable business model to me and thinking about pivoting and not being so reliant on certain industries and all of those things. It was good. It’s good.

 

[0:25:25.3] Peggy: It’s good. So it’s so good to hear. And thank you so much for being a guest on this podcast.

 

[0:25:32.5] Dr. Kiona: Thank you for asking me.

 

[0:25:35.3] Peggy: So what is coming up in Dr. Kiona’s world and anything that’s coming up that you want to share? Go for it.

 

[0:25:47.7] Dr. Kiona: Yeah, so I’ll be in Cuba for Christmas. I am shooting a documentary on Chinese Cubans, so film is something that I’m moving into, which during the pandemic, we haven’t been able to travel, but we’re able to watch things on our phone all day long. So in order to get in front of people’s eyes, film has been something that I’m transitioning into, off of Instagram and into a different type of medium. So I’ll be finishing shooting my documentary in January, and I also will be testing the travel process so that our educational trips can start back up in February because now, measures have been put in place, the vaccine is out, we’re trying to get back in business because everybody has been out of work for a year, and we are running out of money [laughter] to support our communities, so we need to get back into the groove of work. So that is what I’m doing then, and then I’m also trying to start a long-term product line where I have been anti-merch for so long because I feel like I don’t want to add more products into the system. But recently, just launching a product with a local boutique company in Austin where we’re producing clay mugs that you can actually return back to the earth, and it is a limited-time offer, so it helps an entire community of indigenous artists in Oaxaca, and it also helps the entire supply chain of warehouse workers and immigrants living in the United States and also a very small boutique company, and then I also get a commission. So it’s such a great supply chain that I want to make it more permanent and sustainable, but always changing products. So I am in the process of designing the second product, and I’m trying to make it all able to turn back to the earth when it’s time and be compostable so that we’re not just constantly creating more things without a way for it to go when we’re done.

 

[0:28:10.3] Peggy: Yeah, I know. I love that. I love that it’s not contributing to more stuff and there’s just so much meaning and sustainability behind it, and it’s just so good. I love that!

 

[0:28:22.9] Dr. Kiona: Thanks!

 

[0:28:25.3] Peggy: So where can people find you?

 

[0:28:27.3] Dr. Kiona: On Instagram, they can find me at hownottotravellikeabasicbitch.com. My podcast is How Not to Travel Podcast. If you’d like to read my book on turning property into profit, it is called Tales of Horror & Happiness in Hospitality, and it’s available on Amazon. You can pick up the branding book that I did with Peggy also on Amazon, and then my website is hownottotravellikeabasicbitch.com.

 

[0:28:56.6] Peggy: Yay! It sounds so good. Thank you so much for coming on as a guest.

 

[0:29:01.2] Dr. Kiona: Thank you, Peggy.

 

[0:29:02.2] Peggy: Yes, and we are signing off. Bye!

 

Hey guys, thank you so much for listening and for just being here right now. I really appreciate that and that you’re sticking to the end and like, “What?” But yeah, if you got anything from this, just screenshot it and share it on your Instagram. Tag me. Even tag the guest because she’s awesome. And thank you again for being here and I’ll talk to you soon. Bye!

JOIN THE DISCUSSION:

• • INSTAGRAM/FACEBOOK: @blankroomdesign
  • WEB: brandinggems.com /
  • GUEST:  Dr.Kiona
    Business: Web /  Instagram / Links
  • HOST: Peggy Bree
    Instagram – @peggybree
    Clubhouse: @peggybree